This is episode 138 where you’re going to get to hear me in conversation with the fabulous Robin Langford. She is my personal coach and also happens to be a very good friend of mine so enjoy our conversation.

If you want to do things differently but need some help making it happen then tune in for your weekly dose of coaching from me, Maisie Hill, Master Life Coach and author of Period Power. Welcome to The Maisie Hill Experience.

Hi, everyone, welcome to today’s show. This week is a little bit different because Robin, my coach, my friend invited me onto her podcast, Wicked Veracity, just to have a conversation. And it was so juicy that at the end of it, I was like, “Hey, do you mind if I share that on my podcast?” Because I have a feeling that my people are going to really enjoy listening to everything that we spoke about, and we covered so much. There was also so much that we didn’t get around to talking about, which I hope we can return to at a future date.

So, you’re going to get to listen to the conversation that we had. I highly recommend that you subscribe to her podcast Wicked Veracity. She uses the same name on her website and on social media. I live by her astrological forecast, which she shares by email every week for free as well as on Instagram. And I have a weekly session with her week in, week out and I still am referring to those all the time, they’re just so incredibly useful and practical. So go follow her, sign up for her forecast, do all the things and enjoy our conversation.

Robin: Welcome to the Wicked Veracity podcast with Robin Langford, episode 138, a conversation with Maisie Hill. Maisie Hill is a dynamic force in the world of personal growth and empowerment. She is a bestselling author, master coach, wildly popular podcast host and the driving force behind The Flow Collective. With a unique blend of evidence-based knowledge and wisdom, she helps women navigate their lives with power and grace.

Renowned for her groundbreaking books, Period Power and Perimenopause Power, Maisie has revolutionised the way we approach and understand women’s health. Her expertise has made her a trusted voice in this space, shedding light on the often-misunderstood stages of a woman’s life.

The Flow Collective, Maisie’s innovative membership platform is a thriving community of women drawn together by a shared quest for personal development and holistic wellness. Here Maisie continues to guide and inspire, encouraging members to take control of their lives and embrace their power. I highly, highly, highly recommend getting on the waitlist to be notified when the doors open again. Hello, Maisie.

Maisie: Hi. That’s all very true, I’m just basking in the introduction. Thank you.

Robin: You are very welcome. It is all very true and just for anybody who doesn’t know Maisie, I had to cut a bunch of really cool things that she is and does from that list or we would have been here all day. Seriously, if you don’t follow her already, fix that. Follow her on Instagram. Follow her podcast. Go sign up for her email list because her email list is as good as mine, if not better, all of the things. And this is my very first interview, thank you so much for being on.

Maisie: Thanks for having me. I’ve been looking forward to it. We have got so much to talk about and of course we picked a perfect day to do the recording with the Aquarius full moon. And it was really interesting because on my drive to my studio to do this I was just really thinking about, I really think I’m going to talk a lot. Which is because I’m coming out of a spell of autistic burnout, where I haven’t wanted to talk, haven’t been able to talk. And then my kid’s been ill, as you know, for the last few days. But it’s that Aquarius vibe hits and I’m like, “Yeah, I’m ready to talk. I’ve got things to say.”

Robin: And that’s in her 10th house, for those of you who do not know her chart, that is maximum extroversion power.

Maisie: Which for me is really saying something because I don’t really have a lot of extroversion power, so when Aquarius rolls around.

Robin: No, we have three good signs, Capricorn, Aquarius and Pisces are really good for you wanting to be out there. Aries not so much, which we will get into. So, I’m going to say for anybody who’s used to listening to me over the last couple of years, I always have a very scripted podcast because I go off on these wild tangents, which Maisie is very familiar with. And so, this will not be scripted, and I have no idea what’s going to happen. We both have outlines that may or may not match. And we might talk for four hours, we don’t know yet.

Maisie: Yeah. I think that’s the thing is the word in my head that I’ve had about this is ‘unhinged’ I feel quite unhinged in a really fun way. And I also think our communication with each other is I feel, well, certainly for me is that I really get to communicate in the way that is natural to me rather than in other environments, in other relationships. And so, you and I are often having three conversations at once and that’s just in the text thread. And then there’s the conversations I think we’re probably both having in our heads with each other. So, for everyone listening, get ready for some circular conversations.

Robin: [inaudible] come from absolutely nowhere and I’ve done two podcasts with you.

Maisie: Yes, we did two, yeah.

Robin: And I’ve had people say, “Why aren’t you always like that?” And I was like, “What?” No, I’m not, no. But then I realised just how many people in my audience and your audience, because we have a lot of crossover that’s like, “You all have our kinds of brains, that’s the reason that you’re able to follow it and why you like it so much more.” Because I think we also talk faster when we talk to each other.

Maisie: Yeah, that’s very true. I talk a lot quicker, move a lot quicker through things.

Robin: So, the reason for that is that sometimes when your brain works like my brain or her brain, we make leaps really quickly and a lot of the times it’s necessary to create ladders or roadmaps. One of my friends calls it drawing a Crayola map for the people whose brains aren’t working quite at the same way that mine is. And I slow down so that people can follow without the crazy, crazy jumps. I’m trying to think of one, a recent one but even when you said [inaudible], I was like, “Oh, and I understood everything that went along with that.”

Maisie: Yeah, and I think it’s also just how, I always describe it as fireworks going off in my brain. But the firework goes off and then each of those strands of the firework of the whatever it is then goes off into its own fire. So, there’s these continual blowing ups happening in my brain, multiple things all the time. And so, I think to a lot of other people, they’re like, “Well, we were talking about this, how are you now?” They think I’ve changed the conversation and I know that it appears that way, but it isn’t. There’s a whole journey, but it’s happened in milliseconds.

Robin: And so, this is why Maisie’s a master coach, because she recognises when things like that happen and I’m just like, “Where did you get lost? I have no idea.” So, let’s start with your list just because I’m curious.

Maisie: Oh, well, I love that you think I actually have a list of things.

Robin: [Crosstalk] list in your head, I know you do.

Maisie: I know. I do have a list in my head. And well, I feel like we have to start with the 12th house.

Robin: Nice. That was third on my list. Carry on.

Maisie: Just because it’s been so significant for me to use astrology in this way. I think it’s come very easily to me to work with it and of course Aries season this year, which is my 12th house. You gave me such specific instruction for what you wanted me to do and it’s had a huge effect on my life.

Robin: I think you should tell them what the specific instruction is.

Maisie: Okay. I think your words exactly were that you wanted me to focus on how I take time for myself, which is pretty specific, but it’s also general. And so, I was like, interesting especially because I feel I’m very good at taking time for myself. I spend a lot of time lying around. We’ve had this conversation before and you’re like, “Yeah.” But what I don’t mean is going on holiday and switching off.” And that for me is not, that’s not what we’re talking about.

Robin: Yeah. So, there was, I was very specific because she and I both really like to do work stuff and we spend a lot of time alone doing our work stuff. And for 12th house, I was like, “Yeah, but not that.”

Maisie: And so, I thought because when we have these conversations or when I’m going through your monthly workbooks, the astrology workbooks that I absolutely love. I’m always going through them and kind of predicting, what could this transit mean for me, how could that show up? So, I get to kind of work on it at that level and then of course, the thing happens, whatever it’s going to be. And often it’s something else, I feel like it’s a double bang for your buck when you use your workbooks that way.

Robin: Just for anybody who hasn’t used it inside the Crusade, it’s actually a monthly forecast and workbook where I tell you the general overview of the information. And then I tell you which houses it’s going to be so that you can put those topics in for yourself for you. And then there’s literally a section that says, predict, what do you think this is going to be about? And then there’s a section afterwards that says, what was it actually about?

Because astrology takes up so many different topics in each house in which we found out for the 12th house, I can’t wait for you to get to the part where I was like, “Oh, my gosh, I forgot that the 12th house means this.” It’s never, it’s not never, but it’s frequently not what we think it’s going to be because we think it won’t be as literal as it actually ends up being.

Maisie: Well, so for this I thought it was going to be about me being honest with myself but more I think with my partner and my family about the time that I need for myself because that has been my work. Prior to having a family, having kids, needing that level of communication and not working in close physical distance to my partner. It’s been very easy to set my life up to have a lot of space and time alone and quiet and all of those things.

Now living with someone, having a kid, working next door to each other, all of these things, there’s less alone time, which I really need. And I really need when the sun or moon is in Aries, that’s dialled all the way up. So, I was thinking, that will be what it is. It’s about I’m going to need this time alone. How do I explicitly and honestly communicate the amount of time that I need alone? And because my partner’s great, he recognises this when I communicate it in advance or even in the moment, he’s on board with it.

So, I thought that’s what it was going to be. And then one day I was driving with my son through Margate old town, where we live, it’s a seaside town in the UK. And a woman was on a horse, and he saw this horse and he burst into tears. And he had these big, really big sobbing tears and he cried for 20 minutes in the car, inconsolable. And he was like, “I miss Buddy.” Now, Buddy is a pony that he sat on when he was three, he is now seven. He has an amazing memory.

And so, I was like, “Of course, okay, we can go horse riding.” So, we went to a local stable that someone had recommended. He had a lesson then he had a second lesson. And I was like, “Why is he having all the fun? This looks great, I want to get involved.” So, I booked a few lessons for myself, this was, yeah, Aries season, I think it was mid-April.

Robin: Yeah, it was between the [inaudible].

Maisie: Yeah. And I basically I mean I’m lost for words in how to describe it, obsessed, hyper focused, in love.

Robin: Special interest.

Maisie: Special interest, yeah. And also, it just helps me with regulating myself and I feel like horse riding is improving my life, my business, all of the things. If there was a way for me to do it as a business write off I’d be delighted.

Robin: Well, I feel that has to be there somewhere.

Maisie: Anyway, so that came in then, and I haven’t stopped. Well, we can get on to the more recent developments of it when you were like, “Well, get ready for it to be turned up even more.” I was like, “Even more, how can this be even more?” But then it turns out that the 12th house is farm animals.

Robin: Farm animals. Yeah, and I had forgotten because I don’t know, I just did. I was like, “Wait a minute, you literally picked farm animals.” Because she didn’t know, clearly, that farm animals was a 12th house topic. And her way of getting alone time, which is what the 12th house wants you to do is isolation, it’s taking time for yourself. And the literal-ness of astrology blows my mind on a very regular basis and I’m still having trouble with that.

And I just figured out something else, he is an Aries. Your son is an Aries. The eclipses are going to be on his sun, his personal core identity. So, this is a way for him to regulate. This is also working double duty. It’s going to be his eclipse. So, we’re going to talk about eclipse, this is happening. This is an eclipse cycle, not an annual perfections cycle for you, but it’s also eclipses for him. And I think it’s super interesting that the same accommodation, the same planetary accommodation is the way that I think of astrology a lot.

This is going to be beneficial for him getting through eclipses on your sun, which I just went through for the last year and a half. And it’s difficult having a paradigm shift without a clutch. It’s not the most fun that I’ve ever had. I really enjoyed the outcome but the self-identity and self-concept of having eclipses on your sun is like please stop. I need a break. And so, I love that he’s going to have that too now and it’s time with him but it’s also alone. I love everything about it, okay.

Maisie: It’s been amazing. And now we’re going on a horse-riding holiday in a month’s time, and it’s just been such an amazing point of connection for us as well as how it’s benefited us individually. And also, because now it’s a special interest for me. Then it’s also something that if I am feeling dysregulated and I don’t want to be available for normal conversations.

I can’t remember if I told you this, but we were driving home from this burger place that’s a half hour drive away that he loves to go to, and we’d gone there and it’s just sensory hell for me. And we’re all driving home in the car afterwards and I just went, “I am not available for any questions right now unless they are about horse riding.”

Robin: And I bet he could talk about that all day.

Maisie: Yeah. And he was asking me all these really amazing questions. And then we just had this great conversation. So, it was really cool that at the point where usually I’d just be like, “No, I’m not available for conversation, don’t ask me questions.” Just kind of really protect myself by distancing myself from them. It was, this is actually a way that I can still be in connection with you whilst also really taking care of myself and not kind of neglecting myself in the process, so instead of masking.

Robin: Yeah. Well, and it would help him too because it gives him a socially appropriate thing to have a conversation about with the adult. I just love the synergy between all of that. And so, what she was talking about when I said, “Get ready for it, get amped up.” So, the nodes only just moved in properly to Aries and Libra. They had been in Taurus and Scorpio. And for the Aries new moon cycle, which was March, April, we had two new moons in Aries.

The first one was just a regular new moon and the second one was an eclipse or shadowing kind of new moon. It was closer to the nodes, but I told her, “Whenever the nodes actually properly moved into Aries and Libra, it was going to go turbo charged.” And what did you do?

Maisie: I’ve been on the lookout pretty much within a few weeks of starting to ride, looking for a horse that I can loan, a part-time loan agreement with someone. And it’s really hard to find a horse that would suit me because I’m quite tall, in my area, and let alone someone that I’d actually want to have that kind of relationship with as in human to human, let alone the horse.

But then when you told me, “Yeah, it’s going to be really amped up.” I’m like, “How can that be, Robin?” Because I wake up first thing in the morning and it’s what I’m thinking of and it’s what I think about as I’m falling to sleep. And I’m continually positioning my body to build the muscle memory of how I should be on the horse. And I’m like, “Damn, what the hell is going to be happening?” I think I was genuinely concerned at that point.

Robin: Do I become a horse, what?

Maisie: I mean talk about Sagittarius.

Robin: Fair point, she is also a Sagittarius, all sorts of saj.

Maisie: But that was when I had a conversation with someone else who has a horse that I love at the stables that I go to. And we agreed that I’m going to be part-time loaning her lovely horse. And she’s a lovely human too and I just feel that I got so lucky, great horse, great human at a great stable. Incredible.

Robin: And this is just, so people, when we talk about the 12th house, and it usually sounds scary because to be honest, it usually is. And the reason that I am a fate, and a free will coach is because the astrology all by itself is neutral and it’s definitely the way we manage our minds and the way that we interact with it completely changes our experience of it. And you went in with curiosity and a willingness to follow the things that make you feel good. And that’s the best way to approach astrology in almost every instance.

Maisie: I remember you saying that about eclipse, there was an eclipse, maybe it was last year, the ones in Scorpio maybe. And I was excited. I said to you, “Eclipse season’s happening. I’m excited.” And you were like, “I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone say that.”

Robin: I had not. No, I haven’t. Yeah, so, Maisie has the exact opposite reaction to a lot of astrology. Because most people are like, “Okay, what does it mean?” Even I do that. When I had the [inaudible], I’m like, “Okay.” So, I went to my mentor and I’m like, “Am I going to die because it’s going to be right on top of my sun?” And she’s like, “You know, fun fact, that’s only kings and queens and you my dear, as much as we love you are not royalty and so probably not going to kill you.”

And I was like, “Okay, are you sure now?” And Maisie’s just like, “What’s going to happen?” She’s very enthusiastic and honestly, your experiences of all the eclipses I think went perfectly. We knew what was going to happen pretty much with those and it was timed straight with all of those Taurus things which I don’t think we’re probably going to get into right now.

Maisie: But then also then the next phase, so I had this conversation with the owner of this horse. We verbally agreed it and it was going to start today, August 1st, me paying and all of those things. And I was like, “How amazing, Aquarius full moon, what a day to start.” And then it’s been delayed and it’s going to be the start of September, but I am away on holiday. And so, the day that I get back and will be the first opportunity for me to go up to the stables, as loaner of this horse will be when Venus station’s direct.

Robin: I love that so much. I love it. You know I love astrology. I mean it never gets old. And the holiday that you’re going on is the riding holiday. And you’re going to be going during eclipse season I think, around there.

Maisie: Is that when eclipse season is?

Robin: I don’t know because you’re coming back in September, so it’s October, November.

Maisie: Yeah, but it’s when the moon is in Aries.

Robin: Is that what it was? Okay.

Maisie: Because you were like, “Are you sure that’s the week to go away?” And I’m like, “I think it will be okay if I’m riding.” If there wasn’t going to be horse riding involved, that is not when I would choose to go on holiday.

Robin: And I think, I don’t know if we’ve touched on it in a way that other people would understand when you say that it’s very regulating for you. It’s appropriate receptive sensory input that helps regulate that need in your brain as an autism accommodation.

Maisie: And it’s also, I think, well, you know this is one of my favourite facts, you love it too. That there’s this piece of research that shows that the brains of autistic people at rest are 42% more active than the brains of non-autistic people, which is why for me as well as all the astrology in my chart, I’m very happy in my own head. I’m very comfortable having conversations with myself, having conversations with you in my head, yeah.

Robin: And other people.

Maisie: Thinking about my clients and this is part of why I think you were like, “It would be good for you to spend Aries season 12th house, something else.” Because my work has been my only special interest for decades and the various evolutions of my work, but they’ve always been my special interest, what I think about all the time. And I imagine, I mean, I’ve just always thought this is what all people are like with their work. And then no, people actually switch off and don’t think about their work, how weird.

But for me I’ve always really enjoyed it. So, I’m thinking about my work, but it’s always there. When I’m riding, you can’t think about anything other than being on the horse. So, there’s the sensory, proprioceptive side of things, the rhythm of it, all of those things. And it’s also a half hour or an hour where I’m not thinking about how would I teach this concept to my clients. What analogy would I use for this? I’ve got this client who’s having this. Do I want to make a podcast? Just dah, dah, dah, all the time, which for me is really fun. I don’t have a problem with my brain being that way, but it’s really cool for it to not do that too.

Robin: Yes. And that’s 100% the kind of 12th house activity I was hoping for. I had no idea that you were going to be so wildly successful at it and do it so very, very well because it is crazy impressive. And I think about that way that you take astrology, and you immediately implement it. And I know you said the same thing about when you get coached with normal coaches, how they’ll give you coaching and you just, you’re like, “And we’re implementing.” There’s no drama, there’s, and we’re doing.

And I don’t even do that well, I just don’t. I have a 12th house perfection and an eclipse cycle that’s coming up in a couple of years where it’s going to double up on me. And I’ve been looking at it like, alright, so am I getting thrown out of the country? Am I going to go crazy? What are we doing? But I’ve decided watching you, I’m probably going to be working on a dissertation. Because my 12th house is Virgo and that’s about the time that I should be working on a pretty significant research project, and it might be part of it overseas.

So that very much has given me hope. It’s like, “Okay, Robin, it’s going to be fine. The eclipse didn’t kill you. This isn’t going to kill you. This could be fun.” Because it doesn’t occur to me that it could be quite as much fun as you’ve been having in this 12th house. And it hasn’t all been fun. I think you’ve had more a need for more downtime maybe than you were expecting.

Maisie. Yeah, definitely this year more so for sure.

Robin: Yeah. And even since the nodes moved into Aries, I’ve seen it tick up a little bit in a way that I don’t think you were expecting, and I had been kind of looking at this.

Maisie: Yeah. No, not at all. But I remember you saying to me that was why you had said to me back in April, “Here’s what I think would be good for you to be considering and looking at was in preparation for what’s been going on for the last couple weeks.” And it has taken me by surprise, you’re completely right. But I think this is where that combination of astrology and mindset coaching and just being able to use all those things together is so very useful.

Robin: Yeah, I, 100% agree. When I see people that just want to use astrology as passive entertainment consumption, I’m like, “No, stop it. Stop it. Not what we’re doing. We’re not just sitting and experiencing and feeling sad because of 12th house stuff. You’re going to go get a horse.”

Maisie: I love that we’ve spoken about that. We’ve looked at the years ahead of when is Maisie going to buy a horse? I love that having you place your bet on when things are going to happen.

Robin: And it’s truly delightful for me when I get it to the day.

Maisie: When my third book, oh my God, we’ve got to talk about the book.

Robin: [Crosstalk] the book.

Maisie: So, I was contracted to write a third book. I had decided that I didn’t want to write a third book. I’d said to the publishers, “I’m not up for it”, basically. And they were so lovely and we’re like, “How about we leave you alone for a year and we can come back to the conversation and if you still don’t want to do it, you still want to do it?” And in that year I found Robin and I think in my first session with you, you were like, “Yeah, so you’re going to be writing a third book.” And I was like, “No, no, no. Listen, I’ve told them I’m not going to do it. I don’t want to do it.”

And you were like, “Well, you can tell me that all you want to, but the astrology says you are going to be writing a third book and this is when you’re going to be thinking about it.” And it was bang on. And then at some other point in time, I think we were just looking at next year generally. And you were just like, “This date’s going to be really amazing for you and this date.” And then one of them is a day before the book comes out, which is always a really significant day, because that’s when there’s a lot of PR going on and things like that. So, I’m very excited for this book coming out.

Robin: I am very excited because I know which one of those days it was too. And I’m just looking at your chart going, “I can’t wait, can’t wait, I can’t wait to read it. I can’t wait to see how well it does.” And I don’t even think this is your last book. Have we talked about that?

Maisie: No, I knew, I just knew, I knew you were going to tell me that. This is not what I want to hear.

Robin: Well, I’m going to give you a year off, it’ll be fine. I mean, I’m not giving you a year off, but your astrology is going to give you your off, I think, where it’ll probably just be the promotion maybe ish, okay. Anyway, yes, I love it, and your chart, and I really do. So, I think that you’re just one of the best examples I’ve ever seen of people who intentionally use astrology and thought work because you, okay, I’m going to say again, she is a Master Certified coach, which is no joke in The Life Coach School.

Do you hear what it’s doing to me? I’m just like, “I don’t think I’m brave enough to do and ask them what they want me to do to become master certified.”

Maisie: I don’t know if you should. But there’s been several people who have said, “I’m thinking about doing this.” I’m like, “I don’t know if that’s”, and it’s got nothing to do with that person’s capabilities as a coach or anything like that. It’s just I mean it literally in the first month broke me. I mean, we looked at the astrology for why, but yeah, but that first month was basically a write off.

And I had a meeting with my instructors, and they were like, “So what’s been going on then?” And I told them, and they were very kindly, “How about we restart the beginning, and you go from here?” I think that was all kind of in eclipses and post eclipse. I don’t know, there was something that was hitting me really hard then.

Robin: I think if I hadn’t decided to go get a PhD instead, which I don’t know if I’ve even mentioned on the podcast. Yeah, I’m getting a PhD. But I might have tried to go back during that period for Master Coach certification and hated life. I think I would have hated life, not because of, I think it’s not worth doing, but because I know what it takes. Anyway, my point there is that she’s one of those people that went through the trenches to make her brain this well-oiled machine of amazing coaching-ness.

And just baby steps in that direction lets you use astrology in a really powerful way. You don’t have to have her expertise in mindset work or my expertise in astrology to be able to use both to improve your life incrementally and then even dramatically I would say.

Maisie: Yeah, I agree, and I think that’s the beauty of your work is your ability to distil that down into very tangible usable formats.

Robin: Other people who are like, “Well, but I need to go to a class.” You do not need to go to a class, you just need to work on astrology.

Maisie: Yeah, I completely agree. But this is, I mean, now we’re straying into coach talk, but I think that’s often people use that as a crutch of I need to learn more rather than no, I need to use it and apply and learn through my experience of this thing. Rather than actually, you’re buffering and distracting yourself with more learning rather than actually working with it, feeling with it, discerning, building all of those other skills that would be infinitely more useful than buying the ninth book on a topic and not using any of it.

Robin: Don’t judge, I might have 50 astrology books, but that is not the point here.

Maisie: Okay, have you seen all these bookshelves? I mean it’s ridiculous.

Robin: So we’re not judging, we know. We know that that’s something.

Maisie: We know, yeah.

Robin: Yeah. And the reason I say that is because I really do get a ton of people that are like, “Okay, but what astrology class will make me be able to do what you do?” And my answer is, “None of them because the thing that’ll make you be able to do astrology the way that I do or better”, because Maisie’s a great example of doing it even better in a lot of ways, is just to use it every single day.

And I will eventually teach a course and do stuff in that nature, but only for people who have already been using it every day. And so, this was just a teacher moment for me when you were able to tell clients of yours. You’re like, “I bet that’s a this house perfection.” You’ve been able to do that with people who you’ve just been talking to, and you’ve nailed it.

Maisie: Yeah, there’s been clients of mine, whether they’re in the membership or they’re private clients. But then there’s also been people that I follow, I’m aware of, I don’t know them personally but I’m suddenly piercing together, I bet you were in this year perfection and blah, blah, blah. And even with now with all the Venus retrograde stuff happening, I’m just messaging you, sending these crazy voice notes of, “So this is happening. And isn’t that amazing that this is Venus in retrograde?”

So it is, I would consider myself as someone who doesn’t know much about astrology. I use it and I think I feel it in me, I can work with it but most of what you say in terms of the astrology, I’m like, “Okay, Jupiter something.” And I’m getting to know the language of it, but I think that it’s just such an immense topic and there’s so many nuances, approaches, incorrect ways of using astrology, all of these things.

Robin: Just laughing because I have strong opinions about the incorrect way you said.

Maisie: Which I love. So, I think that just goes to show is that you don’t need to know it. You don’t need to study it. You don’t need to learn it in order to use it and it have a really incredible effect on your life.
vRobin: I, 100% agree. And people will, like you said, we call it buffering because the way that we were trained for life coaching. Buffering is when you choose an activity and you do it so that you don’t have to feel emotions about something else. You don’t have to think about something else. So, you might eat cookies because you don’t want to feel sad that you’re alone. And so, you might read all of the technical astrology books so that you don’t have to risk feeling bad about yourself if you get a prediction wrong.

And when the truth is that the secret to astrology is just to start freaking. doing it and take the data down and see what it tells you. And so, to that point, the three things, and I’m just going to keep saying it over and over and over again until everybody’s doing it is pay attention to what sign the moon is in. That’s how she figured out Aries is challenging for her. I mean I knew that it would be because I know what the placement is, but she figured it out for herself.

I think that’s actually one of the things that you figured out at the very beginning was, which of the houses [crosstalk].

Maisie: Yes, it was pretty quick. But you make your point and then I will share why I was able to do that.

Robin: Yeah. So, when I can get people to just pay attention for a month, two months tops to the different signs, it becomes really clear which ones feel really good and which ones feel really challenging or more challenging. And that’s super easy. You don’t even have to do anything about your chart. And so that’s one technique that I’m going to have you talk about. The other one, we’ve already talked about, which is annual perfections and that’s a different house in your chart being highlighted every single year and it changes on your birthday. And that’s what she was talking about that we haven’t actually talked about your annual perfection.

Maisie: No, we have not.

Robin: No. Let’s do that in a minute. And then the eclipses. So, these are the three techniques that I think are super easy for people to get to know a lot about astrology without having to really try, just start paying attention. And so, eclipses highlight two areas of life that are going to get a lot of chaos and a lot of change and that doesn’t mean bad because you had some fantastic flipping change happen and so did I. My Scorpio eclipses were great. Your Taurus eclipses were really good.

Maisie: And that were hardcore to go through.

Robin: Oh yeah, that’s the coaching part.

Maisie: They were hardcore to go through, but a huge transformation in very practical ways, me kind of me being me. I mean, again, there’s just so many.

Robin: Being more you.

Maisie: Yeah, being more you, being more me.

Robin: Because it was in her 1st house so the Taurus eclipses, where the north node was, was in her 1st house of self-identity and there was just so much growth during that year and a half.

Maisie: Yeah, because what was initiated during that time and then kind of each touch point that’s happened since because there’s been multiple of them. Each time that’s kind of come around again in various forms it’s just, I mean I am so different to before that first Taurus eclipse.

Robin: Which was right before I met you, I think.

Maisie: Yeah. Well, yeah, I mean it was what was going on then, that made me think, maybe I’ll have a conversation with this woman, Robin, that sounds great.

Robin: Maybe there’s a plan. Can there be a plan, please? That’s how a lot of people find astrology, they’re like, “There needs to be something that makes this make sense.” Honestly, that is how a lot of people find astrology. And one of the reasons that I deeply, deeply love astrology is because of the model, circumstances being neutral. But a lot of people make that mean and they also do it in the self-help community of if you try hard enough you can have anything. And it makes me absolutely mental because it’s not true.

A butterfly is never going to be an oak tree, it’s never going to freaking happen. And if your chart says one thing, you’re never going to be this other thing. And that’s the fate part, but you could be the best butterfly or the best oak tree with coaching and astrology. That’s infinite growth in that area. But I’m never going to be on the NBA. Why? Because I have the coordination of the Tin Man. I am never going to be a professional basketball player.

And so, to say that if I really were to train hard enough and try hard enough and all these other things that it would happen is just a lie. And I feel like astrology, not feel like, I know. I know astrology makes it very clear what people’s strengths are, what their weaknesses are. And that that’s just who you were designed to be, and it makes it easier to embrace that and fall in love with who you actually are as opposed to who you think you should be.

Maisie: Yes, for sure. And I think one of the ways that that’s been really significant for me is my, I’d say my history of judging myself for not being able to respond to people. So basically, every single form of communication, doesn’t matter what it is. And it was through our work together in terms of the astrology and the coaching that now I’m just much more accepting of yeah, that’s hard for me and I’m doing my best. I’d love for it to be better than it is, but hey, this is just what we’re dealing with and it being very neutral now to me.

Whereas before there was just all these piles of shame about not being able to get back to people about often very important things, a lot of the time, insignificant things that just I don’t need to be asked this. Why are you asking me? And then there was that time recently where someone asked me a question and I was like, “Why do they think I’m the person to ask this question to?” Do you remember? It was someone that I used to work with a long time ago. And I was like, “This is very weird that they’re getting in touch to ask me this question of all people, this is not a Maisie question.”

Robin: Or what Maisie did you know, because [inaudible]?

Maisie: But I remember you were, I can’t remember what house it is or why, but you were just basically, I think you said, “There’s nothing happening in that house of that kind of communication for me.” And you were just, it might sound in a quite damning way, it wasn’t damning at all. It was just very reassuring for me to go be just like, “Yeah, that’s always going to be an issue for you.” I was like, “Okay.”

But then you were just like, “That’s where you, if you know that’s going to be an issue then what accommodations do you bring in for me in my business? How do I set things up so that I’m not needing to and that other people who are really good and really enjoy doing those things can do it? And then how can I use coaching and accommodations to help me do the stuff that I do need to do, especially when it comes to my personal life?”

Robin: Yes. And that’s the way that I use astrology and coaching together, exactly. All summed up. I’m going to have to go back and clip that out and write it as copy and that’s what I do. That’s my [inaudible] ladies and gentlemen, in case you were wondering.

Maisie: But to come back to the paying attention to the moon and how that’s moving through the different signs. That is such an effective instant way of getting data that you can then use. And to me that was just such a no brainer because first of all, it’s barely any effort for huge gains. You have to do it.

Robin: Well, not everybody knows that Period Power, that’s literally what you teach people to do. And so, I think it is a little bit easier for you and people who come to me from you who are already tracking their menstrual cycle. It’s much easier for their brains to get on board with the moon is the exact same kind of data points that you’re looking for.

Maisie: Yes, exactly. And I think that was the thing because I know my cycle so intimately. I didn’t write down because it’s just, it’s logged in my head. I know what’s going on when. So, once you told me about this and then I was able to look back in my calendar at all the appointments that I’d had, well, once I got your astrology calendar that syncs, which I freaking love. Everyone should definitely get that, I mean, I love it.

Once that synced with my calendar and I was able to look back over the past couple of months. I knew just from looking at what my diary was like and where the days in my cycle were, I could very easily recall, yeah, that day was a struggle for me. And yeah, look, the moon is in Aries, the moon is in Libra. And I could just look at these things and be like, “Yeah, that was a day where I was really up for hanging with my family or team communication or doing the more extrovert stuff that is less available or not available at all at other points.”

So now I just have this very cool way of integrating my awareness of my cycle and how my hormones affect me with astrology. And now I can be like, “Yeah, these are the days when I want to be doing this. These are the days when I’m going to safeguard some time so that I can do this and then these are the days where I’m checking into a hotel.”

Robin: [inaudible].

Maisie: [inaudible], yeah.

Robin: Yeah, because I was like, “This would be a day for you to be gone.” So she did, she went away. And it was a really great weekend. I don’t know which transit it was, do you remember?

Maisie: I can’t remember either, but I know I was thinking, I think it was the eclipse.

Robins: It may have been. And I was like, “No, we’re staying [crosstalk].”

Maisie: Yeah. Because I remember you saying, “I think you should stay for two nights and come back after the eclipse.” Yeah.

Robin: Yeah. And that’s yes, and this is something that’ll only apply to women who menstruate probably, but the thing that we have noticed also is that your PMS period, the hormonal fluctuations right before your period starts, if they happen to be in 12th house during that 12th house window. That would be extra challenging than if it happens to be in one of the houses that’s a lot easier, it makes that cycle so much easier.

Maisie: Yeah. And for me this was the coolest thing ever. When we first started working together, I was like, “Oh my God, it all makes sense now.” It was just that missing piece. So, the way I feel about your work is how a lot of people feel about my work. This is the thing that’s always been going on. It’s been running in the background. I had no idea that it was driving so much. And then for me it’s bringing in the astrology as well is just, that’s why there’s sometimes, especially premenstrually, where the sensory and autistic dial is turned all the way up and it’s just too much.

But then it also makes sense at the times when in the run up to ovulation, when if the moon is in Pisces or something like that, and I’m much more like, “Yeah, just go out and meet people. Let’s go out for dinner. Yeah, let’s do those human-ing things.”

Robin: Sounds like a great idea.

Maisie: Yeah. And to the point where I’m questioning, did that dude get this autism diagnosis right? Because I’m making eye contact, I’m laughing, I’m doing chitchat. I’m so personable and all of those things. And then I’m like two days later, “Yeah, he was bang on with that assessment.”

Robin: Right, this is what life normally feels like, okay.

Maisie: But it’s knowing when the astrology is doing me a favour and kind of supporting me and helping me to do the things that I would like to be able to do sometimes. Most of the time I’m really quite happy not to be doing them.

Robin: But it also helps with scheduling because I remember when we first started working together you told me that you just couldn’t schedule things. And I was like, “Yeah.”

Maisie: Yeah, there’s so many things I want to say about this. So, I think partially it was I had taken on some thoughts that work really well, thoughts, structures, routines that work well for other people in business. And thought I should use them, because that’s what you do at this level of business. This is how you run a company of this size and revenue. So, I’d kind of taken that thought on. So that’s the mindset side of things but then struggled to implement it, mainly because of there being phases where, not phases, just times when I would lose my words and not be able to talk.

And if I had a launch for the membership coming up and I was going to be doing a webinar, I didn’t know how I was going to feel on that day. So, I was always kind of hesitant to be planning long term in my business. And it was much more kind of getting close to the time and making a decision in a way that I guess a lot of people would call last minute. For me it didn’t feel last minute because I just felt close enough to it to know, which is what you taught me. You were like, “No, I think it’s just that you need to be closer to it to feel the astrology”, I guess.

Robin: Yes. You were feeling the transits in all that really well.

Maisie: So that was really wonderful. But then I think also now we can use astrology to look at when is Maisie going to be up for it basically and I still use that with my cycle as well. But then it’s also I think through our coaching, I just don’t care. If I’ve got a webinar planned for tonight, Aquarius full moon going for it, but then today I’m like, “You know what? No.”

I now have zero problem emailing thousands of people and going, “You know what? I’m going to take care of myself and I’m not going to do this.” Which is exactly what I’ve done with all this nodes business that’s going on recently when I haven’t coached. I’ve been due to coach in my membership, and I was just like, “You know what? I can’t do that because to do so would be not taking care of me and I can’t be teaching all my clients to do that for themselves but then me sacrifice myself.” I just can’t, it’s just not congruent, I can’t do it.

So I was just like Mars, the wonderful Mars, “Hey, do you want to come and do some coaching and cover my calls?” And she’s like, “Yeah, I’d love to.” My clients love it, but I can communicate that and send an email to everyone going, “You know what? I’m going through some burnout right now. I want to take care of myself. I’m not going to be doing the coaching calls.”

Robin: And I love that. And that doesn’t have anything to do with the astrology, that’s just accommodations that I think you’ve become, I do know that you’ve become more comfortable doing that and I’m not sure entirely why, but it’s been great to watch.

Maisie: Well, I will tell you why. So firstly, I have a post-it note on my desktop that I’m looking at now that I frequently show people on my calls that says, “What accommodation do I need to make this super easy?” Which is a question you gave to me. We should actually go through my post-it note selection.

Robin: I would love that. Yeah, let’s do all of them.

Maisie: And then also Mars, not Mars the person, my lovely friend, amazing coach, Mars the planet and my perfection and being more direct, that’s why.

Robin: Yeah. Because I forget sometimes because we didn’t even talk about your annual perfection?

Maisie: Well, let’s do that now.

Robin: Yeah. So, she’s in a 7th house perfection, which is Scorpio for her. And it is ruled by Mars, which is conjunct to her Midheaven, which is why I was like, “I think you’re doing something with the writing.” That was the thing that triggered her, I forgot. And I didn’t realise that you had trouble being direct because I don’t. And I forget sometimes that other people do, which is weird, but still true. And you have, you’re right.

And you said that you had this period when you were tending bar and you would throw people out and you didn’t have a problem being direct. And I feel like we had [inaudible] the timing and it was also a [crosstalk].

Maisie: Yes, we did, yeah.

Robin: And I feel like I’ve seen you do that more and more and more this whole perfection cycle, which has been great. I love it.

Maisie: Yeah. It’s been really great because I remember I think it was in one of our, I don’t know if it was a coaching session or maybe one of the podcasts that we recorded for my podcast. You were talking about my coaching and the way that you referred to it was about me pouncing on people. Yeah, it was for the podcast. And I was like, “I don’t know if I do that.” And I really thought about that for a lot afterwards. And where I got to with it is that I do pounce but that doesn’t necessarily come out in the coaching.

So, I pounce in my head, someone will say and I’m like, “Yeah, I’m there, I’m pouncing.” But I was holding back from doing that and that was one of the reasons why I signed up for Master Coach training. I wanted to get more direct, more just not, what are the words for it? Ironically, I’m so aware even though I don’t have the words for it that I’m doing right now what it is the thing in the coaching, but it’s really being careful with my words.

Robin: Diplomatic.

Maisie: That’s what it is, yeah.

Robin: And that’s all of the Libra, you have so much Libra. We’ve talked about that before.

Maisie: I forget that I do.

Robin: She’s like, “No big deal.” Just like a whole stellium, it’s fine, very, very much so. Yeah, no, I can see you do it because I think in my head it’s more the mental, and I can see you attached to the thing. And you’re like, “And we’re going to stick right here.” And you are more diplomatic in the way that you say it and not in a fake way, just in a very conscientious way.

Maisie: Yeah. I do think I can kind of hold someone in a place with a lot of love and not need to kind of attack them when they’re in that place in order for something to happen. And I can see when someone has stuff coming up for them in that place but just pour so much love and acceptance on them without me saying anything. But just really love on them in a way that hopefully means they can stay with it and learn to love themselves in that moment of discomfort of the parts of themselves that they shame and don’t like and want to hide and hide from me and everyone else.

Robin: Do you see why I love her as a coach, do you all see this is why, okay, The Flow Collective, [inaudible], okay, I’m done. Yes. And I think that that’s a different kind of, I mean, I do think you’ve gotten a little more pouncy in that arena too, but in not even more in your communication with your team.

Maisie: Yeah, and Paul as well.

Robin: Yeah, and Paul.

Maisie: Paul, my partner.

Robin: Might hate me one day. I don’t know.

Maisie: I can’t remember what he said. I’ve spoken about on my podcast, I think he told me, I think he told me I was being rude a little while ago. And I was like, “Yes.” It was just such a moment of celebration for me to get to that point where someone actually thinks I’m being rude. I do not think I was being rude. I think I was being accurate. You and I have this conversation often where we’re like, “No, I’m just being accurate.” There is a difference.

Robin: Honesty and rudeness are very, very different, I’m on board with that.

Maisie: Yes. So, I do think it’s that and there’s also, I think I have some women in my life now, including you, who really modelled to me a level of directness that I haven’t had modelled to me in that way. So, I think it’s also just the effect of that as well, so thank you.

Robin: And that always makes me laugh because I try so hard to be diplomatic, I try so hard, always trying to be more diplomatic. And what literally happened last week was, “Well, you’re really direct.” And I was like, “No.” That took a lot of effort for me to be that sugar coaty. And so, it’s very funny to me and also helps me see how other people see me because I try so hard to do the diplomatic thing that you do so naturally, and I [inaudible]. I get called rude a lot.

They’re like, “I can’t believe you just said that.” Well, that’s actually what people will say is, “I can’t believe you just said that.” And my brain will be like, you all can’t see this, but my face looks like a confused puppy right now because I’m generally very much confused as to what it is they can’t believe I just said. The truth, what? What was I supposed to say? You asked a question, that was the answer. What was the right answer, chicken? I don’t know. Just so yes.

Yes. And I also think it’s interesting that the way that you talk about acceptance because you’ve actually made me so much more accepting of the way that I am and the way that I’m different. And the autism things that I really didn’t need to talk about ever. I would just quietly make my little, we have to talk about accommodations but we’re already in an hour.

Okay, so I make accommodations for neurotypical people all the time. And I very rarely ask neurotypical people to make accommodations for me even though I have severe sensory processing issues that most people don’t know unless they’ve had to be on a Zoom call with me where I’m like, “You cannot eat in front of me if you think that we’re going to continue having a conversation because my brain will stop working and I will not be able to.”

Maisie: But that’s what I mean by in terms of amazing directness having that modelled to me. Just having you say things like that just when we’re chatting back and forth as friends. I’m like, “Oh, right.” Just because sometimes your brain doesn’t come up with options like that if you haven’t seen it before. Sometimes we really need someone else to be like, “Here are some options of stuff you could say in that.” And you’re like, “Oh, right, got it.”

Robin: And the only reason I say it is because it’s so severe that my computer would literally go off the side of my loft if I couldn’t get away from the noise that people would be making because my sensory processing stuff is so severe. And so, I have to physically be having trouble controlling myself before I even ask for accommodations. So, I feel like I’m not a good model because I know the mental gymnastics that I’ve already gone through to try to be okay with it.

I mean, sometimes, apparently the fact that it only, those gymnastics may have only lasted 60 seconds to be fair, but they were a hard 60 seconds. And so, we talk a lot about accommodations and that’s made it easier for me to ask other people for accommodations because I realise that I actually really make more accommodations for everybody around me than I ever ask for. And I think that me realising that helped you realise that as well.

Maisie: Yeah, that’s kind of an ongoing conversation that we have about that because it’s a lot of the time, I think when you’re just used to doing it, you don’t realise that you are doing it or the extent to which you do it. And so, of course, no one else is going to have a clue either. So yes, I feel that’s an open tab of problem solving of just something that’s yeah, that we’re going to continue to come back to.

Robin: Probably for the rest of our lives.

Maisie: Yeah, for sure. That’s how the Mars Venus has helped me. And then you told me next year I’ve got double Mars, am I saying, is it double?

Robin: It’s the year after that. You have Mars being activated for explicitly this year and not this next annual perfection, but your 9th house one because you have Mars in the 9th house. Next year is all Jupiterian growth and money, so I can’t see it, but I’m delighted for her life.

Maisie: And I’m just being delighted over here as well.

Robin: I just look at it and I’m like, “I can’t wait to see what’s happening?” Because for those of you who don’t know, I love working with entrepreneurs, I love it, I love it, I love it. I love business and it’s a special interest of mine, that and astrology are my two favourite things. I don’t even realise that I know so much about building a business until I work with somebody. I’m like, “Oh yes, let me give you an insight, a Wikipedia definition of each and every single one of these facets.”

So, when I see an astrology chart that making money is about to be crazy activated and growth is about to be crazy activated for a client, I’m like, “Just get ready.” And that’s basically what you’ve been doing this year, I think, has been doing a lot of getting ready and prep and behind the scenes stuff.

Maisie: I think so. And I think that’s what we spoke about recently as well is that because my business has a lot of growth year after year. And then this year, I just haven’t felt that it’s a growth year, of course it is because I mean they’re just always growth years anyway. But what I mean by that is I haven’t been, and I don’t feel any inclination to really kind of grow the business in terms of volume of people and amount of revenue. It’s felt much more like maintaining it as it is in terms of the numbers side of things.

the growth is focused on all the other stuff, which includes, well, how we were talking about it is that knowing that there’s going to be these crazy years of growth coming up. Is that having a maintenance year that’s just focused on improving things, taking care of myself, all of that side of things is going to mean that I’m not going to burn out in those growth years.

And so, bringing in the horse riding now means I have something that has nothing to do with business or work or any of those special interests. It’s time for me, it’s regulating, it’s nourishing, it’s all of those things. So going into those growth years with that foundation in place.

Robin: Yeah. Because next year when I looked at the astrology, I could see that the eclipses were going to be, so we have these cycles, which is one of the reasons that Maisie’s brain works so well with astrology. Is you’re able to see the overlaying of the menstrual cycle and the other various different astrology cycles and how they’re playing out. Well, sometimes eclipses and perfections are at odds.

And so, your eclipses were going to be needing self-reflection and your perfection was going to be, okay, it’s time to make a lot of money. And if you are not giving yourself a way to honour the eclipse cycles in the 12th and the 6th house where you’re taking care of yourself. Then it would have probably led to burn out. And it might still be something you have to be aware of. But you’re so mindful of, I think it will be fine. I think you’ll know when you need to take a break or take your foot off the gas.

Maisie: Yeah, I do have that sense. And I would say I feel also able to be in it. I think that’s a massive difference than say when I first was diagnosed with being autistic a few years ago. Back then, when I would go non-verbal and things, I found it really frustrating, really upsetting. I didn’t know how to be that way. Whereas now when it happens, it’s not a problem. So even last week, when I wasn’t able to talk I was still cracking up and having fun with it.

So, I will type things on my phone and show them to people so I’m doing that with Paul or I’m doing gestures for him to understand me. But he’s doing the gestures back. I have no problem with him talking.

Robin: Yeah. Your auditory processing is still fun.

Maisie: Yeah. But he was just communicating the same way with me, and it was just hilarious, attempting to communicate this way with each other, it was just really funny. So, although I was burnt out from over-peopling, which I wasn’t even peopling that much. But it still, it had a huge effect on me, but I’m able to be in that place and it not be frustrating or not be a problem. And I have kind of things in place where I’m able to do that, there’s processes, there’s accommodations, all of that stuff.

So, I think that’s part of it as well is that I’m always keen to communicate with people is that it’s not about stopping these things from happening. It’s about being able to have these experiences, being able to navigate them, being able to be in them without making them a problem and having all the unhelpful thoughts on top of it of this shouldn’t be happening, all that stuff. And of course, my brain still comes up with stuff sometimes.

I had this whopper of a thought error immediately of I haven’t done enough to warrant this amount, how I’m feeling but I’ve been resting. I’ve been taking it easy. Therefore, I shouldn’t be feeling this way. And I was like, “Oh my gosh, what a load of nonsense that is.” So even being Master Coach certified and all of these things, your brain still comes up with absolute nonsense sometimes.

Robin: Yeah. Everybody’s, like, “When does that get better?” The same question I get about astrology, “When [inaudible] better?” Literally never. You’re always going to have the human brain, always going to have thoughts about stuff. It’s just you’re going to have to commit to the process and be willing to not resist when you see a transit that could be unpleasant or when you feel an emotion or have a thought that isn’t super helpful and just working with it.

And so, to that point I also love that you don’t use it as a reason to not do work. You find a way to do the things that you need to in a way that’s supportive to you. So, you’re still running your membership. Your members are still getting what they need, and it didn’t have to come from you. You could get somebody that you trust and who’s amazing at coaching to step in. So, your work still got done, but with an accommodation. The 12th house accommodation is the way that I think of it, because you’re peopling [inaudible].

Maisie: So, another post-it note that I have is people don’t need me, they need my work.

Robin: I love that. You said that [inaudible].

Maisie: I don’t think that was actually it, but I think it came from one of our coaching sessions, one of the realisations after.

Robin: I know what this conversation was. Okay.

Maisie: So yes, because we were talking about the amount of value that I put out into the world and how can basically me doing stuff that supports that or is it holding me back from doing that? And so that came about afterwards of yeah, people don’t need me as wonderful as I am, as fantastic as I am. They don’t actually need me. They just need what I teach.

Robin: Yes, and they do need what you teach. And I remember it was a design thing I think that we were talking about in the membership.

Maisie: Yeah, I think you’re right.

Robin: So many things that I’m excited for in your chart and you’re doing your business, all the things. And we both have people in difficulty, but you and I will sit here and talk forever. And I’m not going to be part of your burnout. So, we’re going to start wrapping up.

Maisie: What?

Robin: Well, yeah, but that’s because you’re doing it with me right now, so that feels good, but I don’t want you to be depleted later.

Maisie: Okay, can I share one more post-it note?

Robin: You can share as much more as you want.

Maisie: Because I love this one. It’s the apple one.

Robin: I was wondering if it was still up.

Maisie: Still there. So today was the Aquarius full moon. And we had talked about me doing this date for a particular thing. We were looking at the astrology, various dates, kind of noting them down. But I was in me as I was saying to you before we started, I just I don’t feel it in my body. So, I’m not going to commit to doing this thing because I’m just not feeling it and there’s no way I would have been able to do that thing today with what the last couple of weeks have been like.

My point in saying this is that there have been multiple things, events in the last year that I have wanted to do, I think with my head, cognitively. I’ve been like, “Yeah, I want to do this thing.” And I’ve signed up for it and booked flights and all of those things but then in me felt not there with it. And so, I’ve asked for refunds, I’ve cancelled flights, I’ve changed my plans.

Robin: All of our [inaudible].

Maisie: Yeah, on several occasions. And something that you shared with me was because I kept signing up for things, events as an attendee of them. And what we realised is actually, they’re the kind of events for me to be speaking at, not attending. And that they weren’t going to challenge me or give me what I was actually wanting and looking for.

And so, you gave this wonderful analogy of what I want is chocolate but I’m trying to fob myself off with an apple and telling myself that an apple is going to be sufficient and that I don’t really crave the chocolate, just make do with the apple. So, my other post-it note says, “Is this an unsatisfying apple?”

Robin: I love that so much. I don’t remember saying it, but I love that I get credit for it. And it is something that I think to myself, so I do believe that I said it, but you know how my memory is. And it’s so true because I know the specific examples. I remember multiple examples of you apple-ing yourself.

Maisie: Yeah. And even really convincing myself and trying to convince you of I get to go to this thing. It’s about this. I’m going to fly and all these things. And they’ve been serious events that have cost a lot of money, the flight, all of those things. And I think just yearning for something, wanting that community, all of those things that I do love and so that has been really useful. And I think that’s just a great one for everyone to use. Am I trying to con myself into an unsatisfying apple instead of just having the delicious bar of chocolate?

Robin: Yes, I am such a fan. I’m such a fan of that in food theory and in life theory, because there’s so many people thinking no, all of us do it and life is so much better with the chocolate.

Maisie: Yeah, it really is.

Robin: I can’t wait for that specific chocolate bar for you to find the right one. And I’m not going to give it away because you haven’t talked about it anyway. So, I’m not going to say, but I’m excited for it. And just in general you thinking about what it is that you really want has been fascinating to watch.

Maisie: How so?

Robin: In leadership and in entrepreneurship, you are a thought leader in that sphere. And I don’t think that you had really had that self-concept, maybe even when we first started working together. And watching you get clearer on not needing other people’s systems or thoughts about your business in a variety of formats, not in a single format but I’ve seen it in multiple places.

And even in the way that you run your business, the way that you communicate with your team now, just everything. The people that you surround yourself with or don’t, all of that I think has been different apples being replaced with chocolate.

Maisie: Yeah. I think that’s the thing, it’s just being careful of what thoughts we adopt from others. And even the ones that seem helpful because they’ve been really helpful to that person and that structure, that way of doing things has really worked for them. And then kind of equating that as that’s something I need to do without running it past your own internal checks of is this actually, I mean does this sound like Maisie way of going about things? And it’s so painfully obvious to me now, oh, no, that’s, no.

Robin: Well, and I think that that part of that, and I mean I’m sure that that happens with neurotypical people too. But I think neurodivergent women are so accustomed to trying to fit in, even unconsciously. It’s not like when you’re masking, I mask intentionally a lot, but I also do it unintentionally just so much more. And I think that part of even in business, we have been trained that if somebody, an authority figure says do it this way. Then our brain is like, I need to figure out how to make myself do that.

And because you have to make yourself do so many other things, it just feels normal that you’re trying to make yourself fit into this box too. For those of you who don’t know, I do not inside of the box well for a variety of reasons. When I see people that are in front of me that are putting themselves in a box, “I’m like, yeah [inaudible], box too easily. Is it comfy? Does it have a futon? What’s happening?”

Which I’m mixing metaphors probably, but it’s been inspiring to watch you, just the way that you’ll take stuff and run with it and coach yourself through things is freaking amazing and one of my favourite things about working with you because it’s inspiring. And it makes me want to be a better implementer and person and everything so thank you.

Maisie: You’re welcome. There’s something I want to add to that. It’s not that implementing is not necessarily about taking action in the way that I think most people think.

Robin: Like doing the thing?

Maisie: Yeah, because I think I can get coached on something and get to a place of not always resolution, but enough-ness with it to be able to take action. But that doesn’t necessarily mean that I leap into action, as in doing the thing right then.

Robin: 100%, yeah. And when I say, I mean, I literally mean the way that you coach your brain and the way that your outlook on something changes.

Maisie: Yeah, that’s very quick.

Robin: I know, it’s fascinating. It’s fantastic to watch. It’s my favourite thing ever and I was just like, “Look at that, her whole everything, just how did you do that?” Yeah, I didn’t mean necessarily, I mean I’ve seen you do it on a physical plane like a tangible thingy [inaudible], even the way you do meetings, I think changed at one point.

But no, I definitely meant the way you coach your brain and the way you think about the things changes because the way you think about the things is the way that you take action on the things eventually and all this stuff, it’s all coachy. But yeah, I meant the way your brain changes. It’s not fixed, you definitely are the embodiment of growth mindset, I guess is maybe how I would put it.

Maisie: I think I am. I think I’ve always been that way. Why is that? Why? What is my chart? Why am I?

Robin: I mean all the Sagittarius, [inaudible]. Honestly, I think it’s a neurodivergent thing. We do get very stuck, but we get stuck in a very specific way.

Maisie: Yes. And my Taurus as well.

Robin: There’s a lot of fixed energy, shall we say, that could make you stubborn.

Maisie: Yeah. Hello Paul, if you’re listening.

Robin: But that’s the thing about, I mean, I think it’s a mixture of chart stuff and also neurodiversity because especially women. Most of the neurodivergent women that I know, they have structure, they get very, this is the way that it has to be until somebody shows them a different way and they logically are like, “Hey, this will also work.” And then instantly there’s a new structure and it can be a [crosstalk].

Maisie: Because I get very stuck with timing of things. When we’ve spoken about things and I’m like, “Oh, no, but this isn’t end of the month call.” So, in my head it has to be done on the last day of the month. And I get really fixed on that and then you’re like, “Well, you know that call can be done anytime.” And I’m like, “Oh.” And once it’s pointed out to me, I can get on board with it. It’s often I really need to know the logic of things and I think that’s the thing is with neurodivergence, especially in women, is that we can seem very fixed, stubborn, etc, controlling is another word I would say.

Robin: I’ve never been called any of those things.

Maisie: Well, actually it’s just because my brain works in such an incredible way that I have got to the most efficient, the best way I know of doing something. It makes no sense to me why it wouldn’t be done another way. So, it can seem controlling, stubborn, all those things. As soon as someone goes, “But you know there’s this.” I’m like, “Oh my God tell me about that.” And I want to know.

And then I’m like, “Okay, now we’re doing it this way.” So, I can make that switch rapidly as long as it makes sense to me, improves effectiveness, efficiency, all of those things.

Robins: Yeah. If it’s a rational change, if somebody can show it to you. But that’s the thing that I love, me watching you do that is just catnip. I love it so much. I love it so much. And I always tell people my favourite thing is for people to disagree with me and prove me wrong and show me a different way of doing it. I will love you forever if you teach me a new way of thinking, 100%.

And most people don’t get that. They think I’m lying. I’m like, “No, seriously.” I mean, I know I can’t always be right, but if I’m doing something, I think it’s right or I wouldn’t be doing it. And if you can prove to me that I’m wrong and give me a better way of doing it, you’re going to be on my eternal Christmas list, I’m always going to adore you. And you’re like that too. Maybe I just like it because I like seeing somebody else out there who’s like me. I don’t know, but I love watching you do it.

Maisie: So, I recorded an episode about, I think it was just a Q&A one recently, but one of the questions was, how do you deal with conflicts in relationships? And so, I was talking to Paul about it because I’d recorded the episode. And we were talking about when we have conflicts in our relationship, which isn’t that much anyway. And the question was just about arguing kind of thing. And he’s like, “What’s the point? It’s like dealing with Yoda.”

Robin: Yes, I get similar things that are not as nicely said to me, but you are generally just a more pleasant human than I am. So, I can see that. So, I can’t see her, but she’s cracking up right now. Yes, typically when they say it to me it’s more like I’m cross examining them or I’m in a legal proceeding because I’m like, “Here’s the points that you made. Here’s why they’re wrong. What is your response to that?” So, I’m not emotionally tied to being right. I just need for people to make some kind of logical sense.

Maisie: Yeah, apparently some people struggle with that in a conversation.

Robin: Not for long the conversations because I am not going to sit there and listen to nonsense answers. I don’t have that kind of time or patience, and this would be me being direct again. Okay, so I’m going to say thank you so much for being my very first podcast guest and my longest podcast ever. I love you so much. Thank you again. Bye everyone.

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